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[Thermalsig]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7975871.stm
Are  we are attempting to destroy Al Qaeda and other armed terrorists, or are we making a big mistake by attempting to remotely force countries into democracies as like ours. I believe in head hunting on Bin Laden, which is what we should have done from the beginning, but I think it's unfortunately too late for Obama. I put that one squarely on that terrorist of a past president Bush. I wonder how it will play out and how much it will cost us now as compared to before we pissed off half the world by invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. That was political capitol thrown away. We missed our chance for a more unilateral force to attempt Afghanistan. I'm wondering what you think of what's happening with your own countries forces? Where they wasted and do you think the will is there to go after the true villain here? Do you even think bin laden should be head hunted as Obama puts it?

[Wooster]

That's exactly the kind of thing that will pull the coalition apart over there.

How can the British continue over there when the fighting is spilling over into a country who are in fact nominal allies of ours?
I did support what we were doing in Afghanistan, to a certain degree, but with operations spilling over into Pakistan I think it's time we pulled out.

[keasy]

you can trawl through the pages of WAnK in soap box and I told you all...but oh no you wouldn'y listen you still voted for the new Messiah Obama!

 

I always said his policy on attacking Pakistan was a World War starter, he scared the crap out of me when he said he would attack them, it's scaring me even more now.
 


Seriously though.

I can see why, the term...caught between a rock and a hard place...comes to mind.

The poor Pakistani government, they will cop the flack from the surrounding nations of Islam.

[Thermalsig]

you can trawl through the pages of WAnK in soap box and I told you all...but oh no you wouldn'y listen you still voted for the new Messiah Obama!

I think Obama is probably one of the most effective presidents this country has had. He's only been in office 70 days and he's already made a huge positive impact and shown a sharp swing away from the policies of that fecking dictator Bush. I believe current situations and history will bear that opinion out well.

The poor Pakistani government, they will cop the flack from the surrounding nations of Islam.

I think that Pakistan is in serious trouble and may well fail and fall into chaos all by itself. One thing that is forgotten I think is that Al Qaeda attacks Muslim's too. Osama must be killed, dead, fecking hanging from a tree, dragged by a horse, taken off his dialysis machine permanently. Dead. I was just expressing the opinion that Bush may have burned that bridge when he went into Iraq.

[keasy]

I think Obama is probably one of the most effective presidents this country has had. He's only been in office 70 days and he's already made a huge positive impact and shown a sharp swing away from the policies of that fecking dictator Bush. I believe current situations and history will bear that opinion out well.

It's way to early to say in all honesty.

We experienced the same type of thing when Tony Blair was elected...years of asshole tory rule and Blairism felt great, the feel good factor returned to Britain and it was all good. Or so we thought, 11 years later we are beginning to see the real repercussions. Many folks may want to blame Brown as he was the C of the Ex at the time, but ultimately, The PM is the Lord High Treasurer and the exchequer is only 2nd. So we now feel the aftermath of Blairism.

Time will only tell if Obama will turn out to be a good President or not or if history shall wish to record him as such.
 

[Thermalsig]

You sir, IMO, are a pessimist at times. If you would please, give me your reasons for disliking Obama. I've heard your messiah comment and recently your Pakistan comment, but I consider the former to be subjective thinking colored possibly with failures of your govt., similar to the way I feel about both Bush's, and the latter to be important. As was shown yesterday, it may be done with political allies important to the process and with some assured safety to the citizens. Bush had pissed off the Russian's and was building towards another cold war and Obama seems to have reengaged relations with the Russian's and has possibly re secured our supply routes into Afghanistan. I personally hope that we can gain help from Pakistan in fighting terrorists that they can't control and have ceded land to in their country, but I don't think they have the will or way.
The past-http://select.nytimes.com/2006/09/23/opinion/23dowd.html?_r=1
Now-http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Pakistan-uses-militant-groups-as-foreign-policy-instrument/articleshow/4353151.cms
The difference is that at least we are looking at it objectively and even some of their "allies" have recognized the growing need to contain the situation. Engaging their allies and incorporating them into the solution is the only way to proceed.
If some of this post seems disjointed, it's because I have a pounding headache and I can't be arsed to reread it.

[keasy]

Don't be so bloody defensive you mad American...wait a moment...is that a Nimitz class out side my garden, floating on a sea of piss ?

 

Ever so sorry therm, but you're being a tad over reactive I think mate.
I'm entitled to not like Obama if I want, it by no means makes me a pessimist and coincidentally, I do like him.
It is you sir who are making assumptions and jumping to conclusions.
You seem to be missing my point that the reason I call him the new Messiah is because he is being banded about over here and there I assume as the answer, the new beginning, the man who lead us to the promised land, the brave new world.
It doesn't wash with me, he is a politician and only time will tell if a politician is worthy of their salt.
It's politics and I see or hear no constructed, reasoned argument or objective counter arguments coming from any other camp at the moment. And that's what is needed to give him his proven ground.
So far all I see is feel good factor with no substance behind it other than he is not Bush.
Granted it may be that because I am over here and not over there I only see the snippets worthy of air time compared to what you see. It may be that the opposition are still licking their wounds and recovering from their defeat.
But please, do not be so hasty as to assume I'm a pessimist. Politicians are all susceptible to corruption and worthy of cautious suspicion, to me...that is only sensible.
Unless, he is the new Messiah where you place all faith in him, blindly ? 

Ya turd!   

[MEGGY]

 

[Wooster]

I've never once heard Obama referred to as a messiah...maybe I'm not reading the right shi..newspapers.

I see a lot of substantive differences in Obama, chief among them is that countries who wouldn't have crossed the street to piss on most of the recent US presidents if they were on fire, are willing to talk to him. He's also hell bent of pushing through social reforms that have been needed since the Nixon years, and the injection of cash he's given to scientific research is historically and geographically unprecedented.

Tony Blair was fine early on...but his long term goal was always to set himself up in a cushy number once his political career was over (he currently makes about £12 million a year in the private sector for various advisory roles and lecture tours), and that's reflected right now among his Labour Party cronies who are still in politics. They are more interested in how much money they can cram into their fat faces than any sense of civic duty.

At this stage I don't think you can't draw a long term parallel between the two.

Personally I think his biggest challenge will be against the old guard Washington conservatives, they're the ones who'll put up the most resistance..because they're a bunch of greedy f*cks as well.

[keasy]

I've never once heard Obama referred to as a messiah

How do you think he travelled over here to the G20, transatlantic aeroplane or something ?


No my friend, he walked on the Atlantic waters...WALKED!

[Wooster]

 

[keasy]

It's okay for you and Therm, you two are believers.

I'm doomed 

[Wooster]

We're all doomed anyway mate, it's just a matter of time.
It's a fragile planet we live on and the human race are a right bunch of hotheads.

What we really need to do is pool our collective resources and get another planet sorted out as a backup plan, asap.

[Centurion]

So lucky for you lot that the players of Eve have been looking in to this scenario for years funded out of that big black bag in the houses of Parliament........

No wait it's been spent on porn........

Lets face it we are now a very small piss poor planet in a big solar system & till we learn to kill each other more quickly were F**ked....

[keasy]

 


Thought I was supposed to be the pessimist 

Anyhoo.....


Barrack Obamessiah....


Great work on the French I have to say.

An nation alienated through taking their own stance within NATO. It's good to see Mr Obama taking the initiative and trying to get them back in the fold where they belong as a responsible global politics empowered nation, without ultimatum, instead compromise.

Great stuff...just hope 5 years down the line it's not a regret (to re-iterate my original point).