+  woostyandkeas.com
|-+  IRL» Soap Box» Abdelbaset Ali Al-Megrahi release?
Username:
Password:
Advanced Search
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Abdelbaset Ali Al-Megrahi release?  (Read 1084 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Wooster
Wall Eyed Wanker
Administrator
Alcoholic
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. -518
Offline Offline

Posts: 5541


'An how faust kin it ging?'


« on: August 13, 2009, 11:47:35 PM »

Seems to be a bit of an Atlantic divide about this.
Personally, I think they should let him return home to die and show some human decency, where others might not.

We've already shown clemency and acceptance for some of the acts of other political activists, so why not him?
The guy was a pawn in the politics of the time, and he'll be dead shortly anyway..so there's nothing to be gained by keeping him in jail.

I can understand the anguish of those who have lost loved ones, but there seems to be a huge divide on the clemency issue on each side of the Atlantic.

(BBC News America just ran a really strange piece with some Jewish lass who managed to steer the issue way off topic...? I've no idea why she was allowed to get away with it, since it had fuck all to do with the issue at hand.. scratchhead)
Logged

Thermalsig
American stooge!
Administrator
Alcoholic
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. -65496
Offline Offline

Posts: 6611



« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2009, 11:56:01 PM »

Many people have died in prison for lesser crimes. I'm for leaving him there. Pawn or not, he murdered a lot of people. MO.
Logged

Condor Baggins
Guest
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2009, 11:58:36 PM »

All this "Release on Compassionate Grounds" pish does my head in...if you're sentenced to life, you should serve life and that's how I've always seen it. Personally I think anyone who carries out an act of terrorism against this country should never see the light of day again if convicted.  confused
Logged
Hallcat
Mistress of Kittens
Pub regular
*****

Good Guy/Gal Points. 147
Offline Offline

Posts: 3309


Dog days of summer have arrived.


« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2009, 12:17:27 AM »

Seems to be a bit of an Atlantic divide about this.
Personally, I think they should let him return home to die and show some human decency, where others might not.

We've already shown clemency and acceptance for some of the acts of other political activists, so why not him?
The guy was a pawn in the politics of the time, and he'll be dead shortly anyway..so there's nothing to be gained by keeping him in jail.

I can understand the anguish of those who have lost loved ones, but there seems to be a huge divide on the clemency issue on each side of the Atlantic.

(BBC News America just ran a really strange piece with some Jewish lass who managed to steer the issue way off topic...? I've no idea why she was allowed to get away with it, since it had fuck all to do with the issue at hand.. scratchhead)

I think I heard the BBC News America piece you refer too.  I think the problem with the whole thing is that he was the only one ever convicted, he's maintained his innocence the whole time.  (if the report I heard was true)  I do think he was a pawn in a more complicated terrorist attack.  He took the fall for it, but I don't think they should let him out of prison because he's terminally ill.  What sort of precedent will that set?  Some really harden terrorists could plot terrible attacks from their death beds.  I think it's a bad thing letting him out.  Why take a chance?
Logged

"What I Loved" -John Green
Hyperconnectedness & our ease of movement, that trains & planes & Skype make us all so close to each other...& my fear? I hope that 500 years from now, there will be castles that we made for each other and that there will still be people & music & stories to populate them
Wooster
Wall Eyed Wanker
Administrator
Alcoholic
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. -518
Offline Offline

Posts: 5541


'An how faust kin it ging?'


« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2009, 12:21:19 AM »

Compassion is the key word here.

This act had some history and we'd be the first to be calling for clemency if the shoe was on the other foot.


On the one hand we have a Captain of a US Warship who gave the order to blow an Iranian passenger plane out of the air (261 people dead), despite the fact that he was found to have been miles out of position, mis-identified the plane, and his crew making a total balls up of the information the systems were showing.

He was given a promotion and a medal.

On the other, we have (at best) an agent of revenge, who is now dying.

What difference will it make if he dies in Greenock or at home?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 12:25:00 AM by Wooster » Logged

Thermalsig
American stooge!
Administrator
Alcoholic
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. -65496
Offline Offline

Posts: 6611



« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2009, 12:46:49 AM »

Compassion is the key word here.

This act had some history and we'd be the first to be calling for clemency if the shoe was on the other foot.


On the one hand we have a Captain of a US Warship who gave the order to blow an Iranian passenger plane out of the air (261 people dead), despite the fact that he was found to have been miles out of position, mis-identified the plane, and his crew making a total balls up of the information the systems were showing.

He was given a promotion and a medal.

On the other, we have (at best) an agent of revenge, who is now dying.

What difference will it make if he dies in Greenock or at home?
I don't agree with what happened in that episode either, but I'm not sure all the details were released on that. It gets a little iffy gray areaish when we are talking about countries with known and vocal intent to commit harm. Killing civilians is wrong and rewarding it, if that is the full truth, is wrong. Compassion for terrorists is nil for me. The question of where he lays on his death bed has everything to do with the crimes he committed. We do not condone terrorists or their actions if they are Americans. Think of all the terrorist acts that have been committed by Americans and the consequences they have faced. I hesitate to say we have put all where they belong(Bush era), but I think that is in the past hopefully and we will regain some modicum of respect with Obama in the lead. I know he's already pissed off a great many of the republicans and semi-conservatives with his policies toward the truth.
Logged

Thermalsig
American stooge!
Administrator
Alcoholic
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. -65496
Offline Offline

Posts: 6611



« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2009, 12:56:40 AM »

Some history and explanation on the American warship shooting down of the airliner.

1988: US warship shoots down Iranian airliner
An American naval warship patrolling in the Persian Gulf has shot down an Iranian passenger jet after apparently mistaking it for an F-14 fighter.

All those on board the airliner - almost 300 people - are believed dead.

The plane, an Airbus A300, was making a routine flight from Bandar Abbas, in Iran, to Dubai in the United Arab Emirates.

The USS Vincennes had tracked the plane electronically and warned it to keep away. When it did not the ship fired two surface-to-air missiles, at least one of which hit the airliner.

Navy officials said the Vincennes' crew believed they were firing at an Iranian F14 jet fighter, although they had not confirmed this visually.

No survivors

The plane blew up six miles from the Vincennes, the wreckage falling in Iranian territorial waters.

Iranian ships and helicopters have been searching for survivors but none have so far been found. Iranian television broadcast scenes of bodies floating amid scattered debris.

Iran has reacted with outrage, accusing the United States of a "barbaric massacre" and vowed to "avenge the blood of our martyrs".
Some context:
Most of those on board the Iranian Airbus were Iranians on their way to Mecca. The victims also included 66 children and 38 foreign nationals.

An official inquiry carried out by the US attributed the mistake to human error.

However, the Iranian government has always disputed the American version of events.

It took four years for the US administration to admit officially that the USS Vincennes was in Iranian waters when the skirmish took place with the Iranian gunboats.

Subsequent investigations have accused the US military of waging a covert war against Iran in support of Iraq.

The US government has never admitted responsibility or apologised for the tragedy.

Some believe the Lockerbie bombing, carried out six months later in December 1988, was masterminded by Iranians in revenge for the Airbus tragedy, although a Libyan man was convicted and jailed in 2001. scratchhead

In February 1996 the US agreed to pay Iran $61.8 million in compensation for the 248 Iranians killed, plus the cost of the aircraft and legal expenses.

It had already paid a further $40 million to the other countries whose nationals were killed.

President Reagan said the Vincennes had taken "a proper defensive action" and called the incident an "understandable accident", although he said he regretted the loss of life.

'Deep regret'

Admiral William J Crowe, Jr, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said at a Pentagon news conference that the US government deeply regretted the incident.

However, he said, the Airbus was four miles west of the usual commercial airline route and the pilot ignored repeated radio warnings from the Vincennes to change course.

Less than an hour before the shooting down of the passenger jet, he added, the Vincennes was engaged in a gun battle with three Iranian gunboats after a helicopter from the Vincennes was fired on.

The president promised a full investigation into how a passenger jet came to be mistaken for a fighter jet, which is two-thirds smaller.

US warships have been escorting Kuwaiti tankers in and out of the Persian Gulf since last July as part of its controversial undertaking to keep the Straits of Hormuz open during the eight-year-old Iran-Iraq War.

Pentagon officials acknowledged at the time that increased US military presence would risk provoking confrontations with Iran.

Last May the patrol frigate USS Stark was almost sunk by an Iraqi fighter-bomber, killing 37 sailors. Vigilance was tightened after the incident.
Logged

Wooster
Wall Eyed Wanker
Administrator
Alcoholic
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. -518
Offline Offline

Posts: 5541


'An how faust kin it ging?'


« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2009, 12:56:51 AM »

The 'grey areas' are what concern many of us.

Logged

Wayfarer
On the teat!
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. 4
Offline Offline

Posts: 58


« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2009, 10:55:54 AM »

His release from gaol is not about him.
It's about us, about society's civility.

He'll die soon so there's no value in leaving him in prison... we've done our worst to him and the only thing left to gain is some self respect for ourselves.
Logged
Wooster
Wall Eyed Wanker
Administrator
Alcoholic
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. -518
Offline Offline

Posts: 5541


'An how faust kin it ging?'


« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2009, 11:39:37 AM »

I saw an investigation into what happened with the Vincennes and quite a bit didn't stack up with the official line, but it was mainly human error. confused

The reason they mistook it for an F14 was because they were initially tracking it on the ground, but accidentally designated an Airbus that was taking off in front of it as the target.
The Captain went out looking for a fight and strayed well into Iranian waters (daft bugger got lost).
The warnings they broadcast wouldn't have been received by the Airbus (wrong channels used), and when they examined the 'attack', the data showed that the plane was actually climbing, and not diving as the radar operator told the Captain.
..they put this down to a problem with the training drills, something to do with them getting into an attack mindset and disregarding the evidence in front of them. That led to a change in the training routines afik.

I think it's what the military calls a bit of a 'clusterfuck'.  blush

Logged

Ctulu
Server Admin
Alcoholic
*****

Good Guy/Gal Points. 126
Offline Offline

Posts: 6969


« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2009, 12:38:40 PM »

would we be having this discusion if he was a child rapist?

I'm with therm on this
Logged
Wooster
Wall Eyed Wanker
Administrator
Alcoholic
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. -518
Offline Offline

Posts: 5541


'An how faust kin it ging?'


« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2009, 01:39:53 PM »

That's different, a child rapist would have committed his crime as a result of his own twisted mind.

Most terrorist activities are politically motivated, and those who carry them out are usually doing so under the instructions of others.
That doesn't mean he isn't guilty, but he's only one of the criminals involved. (The rest are probably still enjoying positions of privilege in Iran and Libya)
Logged

Condor Baggins
Guest
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2009, 02:22:10 PM »

Why then out of anyone they could have asked, was he chosen then? Random pick? Don't think so, he's obviously agreed to doing it which makes his position worse than those who influenced him.
Logged
Wooster
Wall Eyed Wanker
Administrator
Alcoholic
*

Good Guy/Gal Points. -518
Offline Offline

Posts: 5541


'An how faust kin it ging?'


« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2009, 04:58:07 PM »

He was linked to the Libyan Secret Service iirc.

One country using another to do it's dirty work is pretty normal.
Logged

Condor Baggins
Guest
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2009, 05:20:33 PM »

Doesn't mean he couldn't have said no though... dry
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: