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[keasy]

BBC News - Iranian navy detains five Britons on yacht in Gulf


Iran, I always did my best to not see them as bad guys as GWB liked so much to percieve them as.

But recently their oppressive regime not willing to conform with the will of their people (as we're led to believe) and their hissy fitting over the whole nuclear issue, now this ?

Fecks.

BBC News - Iranian navy detains five Britons on yacht in Gulf

They need a strong message sent, most probably imperative sooner or later.

[Wooster]

He's turning into a right pain in the arse.


(Apparently he's getting grief internally and these kind of things always bump him up the popularity stakes among his supporters...so he's posturing fud)

[Vasco]

A foreign yacht inside Iranian Territorial waters that have been declared off limits to international traffic!

That means that under International Maritime Law Iran is within its rights to arrrest those on the yacht.

The fact that they drifted into these waters whilst having mechanical problems is mitigating circumstances but of itself does not change the fact that they have intruded where they have no legal right to be.

Now when you consider that this has happened at a time when the west are putting political pressure on Iran about its uranium plants what can you expect the Iranian Authorities to do.  Couple this with the internal problems the regime in Iran is suffering and the outcome is what you are reading.

I am not sticking up for Iran simply pointing out that this mistake has given the Iranians the ideal opportunity to grandstand and maintain the high ground at the same time. 

Morally Iran may look like the bad guys to the western public but legally they are on fairly safe ground.  Simply put this is an embarrasement to the UK that the Iranians will drag out. When they release these sailors, which they will do, they will be able to claim that they are being magnaminous; either that or they will get some concessions from the UK govt.



 



 

[keasy]

Everyone knows that they're within their legal rights and are using it as political tool now, but that's what is pissing people off.
A reasonable country would know without too much investigation if they were genuine civilians or not and let them go with minimum of fuss.
Instead these poor folks must be terrified.

[Jector]

Haven't Iran and several other mid-east countries been doing this crap for eons now?  I seem to remember numerous accounts of people being detained for periods of time and then released "Because we are a sweet, peaceful people.  Aren't we nice?". 

[Vasco]

Unlike the USA which just detains them and doesn't release them or worse takes them to Europe and tortures them   

(Just kidding)

[Wooster]

I watched a documentary recently on the shooting of Neda Agha-Soltan in the aftermath of the recent Iranian elections.

I was quite shocked and angry (while it at the same time realising that it was due to the actions of a nugget who'd been handed a badge and a gun only a few days earlier), but then I remembered the actions of the cops in London during the eco-demonstrations earlier in the year.

People in glass houses and all that.

[Jector]

Unlike the USA which just detains them and doesn't release them or worse takes them to Europe and tortures them   

(Just kidding)

I can't defend many things my country has done, especially the previous administration, however most of the people detained were at least likely to have been up to shenanigans.  When you start pulling them off racing yachts or because they are foreign reporters reporting things you don't like (another mid-east favorite) the people over here would start yelling at the top of their lungs to release them.

[Vasco]

however most of the people detained were at least likely to have been up to shenanigans. 

That is the claim of the USA but the people of the countries the detainees come from do not agree and do not think that they were all up to no good.  They believe that many of them were innocent people accidentally in the wrong place.

Iran believes these yachtsmen were up to shenanigans yet those of us outside Iran believe they were innocent people accidentally in the wrong place.

I guess what I am saying is I find it difficult to condemn Iran for copying the bad example set for them by the west.  At the same time I have sympathy for the innocent people caught up in all this.

(I should note that having lived in a country recovering from decades of war I know for a fact that even the most innocent actions taken in the wrong place can be easily misconstrued to the detriment of all)

[Jector]

So your stance is that Iran has not, in fact, been detaining people for decades for complete BS or political reasons.  That they only recently did it to copy the US in the last couple years.  Further, you say that they aren't being duplicitous and honestly believe the Brits sent saboteurs/spys in a racing yacht who were up to devilry by leisurely drifting into their waters out of visible range of the coast.

I see.

[Wooster]

I have to be honest here, I wouldn't have been surprised if they were up to something.

The crew fit the bill for MI5/6 recruits and the cover story was a good one.

[Vasco]

So your stance is that Iran has not, in fact, been detaining people for decades for complete BS or political reasons.  That they only recently did it to copy the US in the last couple years.  Further, you say that they aren't being duplicitous and honestly believe the Brits sent saboteurs/spys in a racing yacht who were up to devilry by leisurely drifting into their waters out of visible range of the coast.

I see.

What I am saying is that it is all up to perspective and that those of us in the West need to also look at what our governments get up to. 

I deplore what Iran is doing and I also deplore some of the things we in the west get up to which are equally as bad.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,644183,00.html

[Wooster]

CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano told ABC News. "We simply do not comment on those types of claims, which have appeared in the press from time to time over the years. The dangers of airing such allegations are plain. These kinds of assertions could, at least potentially, expose millions of people to direct threat. That is irresponsible."

Maybe I'm being naive (I don't think so though), but I've never bought that brand of scaremongering.

On an individual scale (mine), the threat of terrorism is negligible in comparison to the hazards of everyday life.

[Thermalsig]

I think we are comparing apples and oranges here. I'm not defending my countries previous administration, but we aren't hate mongering history deniers. Iran has a bad rep in the world with their known intentions. I think our current govt. head has a better grasp on the situation and is willing to work the whole board. I like the fact that Obama is letting the Israelis sweat it out and forcing them to think proactively about their security situation. My hope is that the China and Russia can come together with us in away to sanction Iran that will matter enough to make them rethink their whole nuclear intentions. Iran has no moral ground to stand on if they want to throw recent history in the West's face. That's a moral hill they have no ability to climb. As far as the OP and what Iran is thinking, this is all a lead in in their eyes and fails.

[Vasco]

I think we are comparing apples and oranges here.

I disagree.  Iran and the USA and their attitudes may be apples and oranges but what we are discussing is a countries right to detain individuals without trial or without being charged because at the time they were detained the country detaining them thought they MIGHT be up to something illegal.

I see no difference between some of the individuals in Guatanimo Bay and Iran detaining the Brits on the yacht.  Also saying you don't agree with the previous administration does not mean that the acts of that administration did not occur, I am also sure that the Iranian people do not all agree with the acts of their current administration. 

My point is that what Iran is doing is wrong but what the west has done in the last decade in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan is not without reproach which is something we all forget when we get caught up in the emotion of the event.

I am not defending Iran just pointing out that at times we in the west are no better.

I also hope that Obama can sort a few things out in the middle east.