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[Hallcat]

This story just broke my heart.  I found myself tearing up this morning while I finished up my sweet potato casserole for my work luncheon.  I couldn't help but think how lucky we are as a family despite some of our own troubles.  It truly illustrates some of the major problems this country has.

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=113928094&m=121549450

[mouse007]

Very sad indeed. I, myself have been in the position of having to choose between health or dental care and general living costs. I see people on all "three" sides of the road. The first being the insured people...a lot of them take for granted what insurance they do have. The second being those who are uninsured and have to choose between their medication or groceries. I try especially hard to help them as much as possible (county rx savings programs, manufacturer coupons, alternative medication that may be less expensive, etc). The third being those who are on welfare.  I appreciate that some people need help. I just hate the way people take advantage of the system. Don't get me wrong, the general idea is good but I think it is too easy to cheat the system. I find it hard to put faith in a system that denies people eligibility when completely covering others who don't appear to need it. I see people everyday that are on full coverage welfare. Some do really need it and appreciate the help they get while others are just abusing the system. I was ineligible when I applied for assistance several years ago. The reason they said was I had too many assets. ummmm....I was a full time student, worked 2 jobs, had no healthcare, and I was ineligible for assistance because I had a second car that was titled in my name. It didn't matter that the car didn't run nor had it been in running condition for a few years. It wasn't even worth more than a few hundred dollars even if I had sold it. It just erks me to see welfare recipients coming up to the counter with brand new Palm Pre phones stuck to their ear, 15 gold chains around their neck, brand new clothes, and various other bits of detail that make them appear not that needy. Two of my favorite examples are the girl who came up talking on her cell phone with a $200 Guess purse buying  loads of candy, soda, make up, magazines and other nonessential. Her $10.00 rx was free, is that really fair? Or the guy that comes through our dirve-up window in his brand new Cadillac Escalade base price starts at about $60,000. His rxs are free, is that really fair?
Sorry for the soap box...I think I am done now.

 

[Wooster]

Isn't that a reason for universal social healthcare?

If everyone was treated the same then there wouldn't be this inequality, and no-one could be accused of scamming the system.

(There are always people out there who will try to beat the system anyway, all the way from those on the poverty line trying to blag a few extra bucks in benefits, to the multinational corporations dodging the tax system and cheating the country out of billions.)

[mouse007]

Isn't that a reason for universal social healthcare?

If everyone was treated the same then there wouldn't be this inequality, and no-one could be accused of scamming the system.

Yes that is a good reason for universal social healthcare.
I think there are also draw backs to it.

[Wooster]

There always is.  
The question is: are they worse than the drawbacks with the current system?

[mouse007]

Yes I think they are worse. Look at the Canadian healthcare system....

[keasy]

Where ?


I can't see it!    

I've heard (and I haven't looked in to it) that the Brazilian (a system where fannies are shaved in a particular way) health care system is modelled on the UK system but is the best in the world.

[Wooster]

Yes I think they are worse. Look at the Canadian healthcare system....

The one where you pay half of what you would do in the US, live on average three years longer and have a lower infant mortality rate?

That could be interpreted as a problem if you are a hardline eco-warrior (in global energy consumption terms: 1 American is worth 370 Ethiopians  ), but I'm not.

[mouse007]

you're right Wooster, I'm a dumb arse. I just hope I don't have to wait 2 weeks for an x-ray; or get a doctor that just doesn't give a damn because he/she is under paid and over worked (or not educated enough to diagnose me)...

[keasy]

None pf the above is even remotely true, it's  scaremongering by those Americans opposed to an NHS styled social health care system in The US, those who stand to loose millions should the system switch 

My dad had cancer, The N.H.S. saved his life, he was diagnosed, operated and treated within a matter of two weeks. It cost him....nothing more than the taxes he usually paid.   

[Wooster]

I'm not really up on the old US Vs Canadian healthcare debate, but I thought that most of those arguments have long been proven not to stand up to scrutiny..


Btw, if you asked who I'd rather prefer moving in next to me I'd choose the American over 370 Ethiopians.

[Vasco]

In NZ there is subsidised health care.  If you get sick you can go to any hospital for free treatment  but there are sometimes waiting lists.  If you have health insurance then you can claim on your insurance and get the job done straight away.   If there is no waiting list then you get treated and do not have to claim.

This means those who need health care and can't afford it insurance get the care they need and those who can afford insurance get cheaper insurance because of less claims.  This of course all comes out of taxes.



 

[Wooster]

I looked into the NZ system and tbh I didn't like it, it seemed a bit of a half arsed. 
If you can bump yourself up the queue to the detriment of others by handing over cash, then it isn't exactly a fair system imho.


In Scotland we don't cripple students (medical or otherwise) with University fees. (I think this was the case across the UK until relatively recently...but they started to hit students in England & Wales with loans a while back)
There's no obligation on the students, we take the opinion that we'll make it back in the long run...maybe.

I know my ex-NHS dentist has since moved into private practise, and the work he did for me while I was a patient (if I wasn't on the NHS) would have run into four figures, minimum.

Tbh I don't understand why anyone can say that the ability to enter any medical facility and receive treatment for whatever ails them, at any time, and at no additional cost, can possibly be regarded as a bad thing.

It's a complete no-brainer.

[Vasco]

I looked into the NZ system and tbh I didn't like it, it seemed a bit of a half arsed.  
If you can bump yourself up the queue to the detriment of others by handing over cash, then it isn't exactly a fair system imho.

That is not the way it works.  If you pay cash you go into a completely separate system so those in the queue are not adversely affected in fact it helps those behind you in the queue.  

Simply put we have two systems running in parallel the public or free system and the private or user pays system.  Our taxes pay for the public system and it is a personal choice if you want to pay and use the private system.  

For instance here in Wellington we have 3 public hospitals and 2 private hospitals.

Let me give you an example.  I had a growth on the tendons of my left hand that was closing my hand in to a claw.  It was not painful and because it was on my left hand it didn't stop me working.  Because it was classed as a low priority surgery I could have waited 3 years and had it operated on for free in the public system but that operation would need to use an operating theatre and surgeons.  Therefore it would have been another delay for someone waiting for high priority surgery at that time.  I have health insurance so I claimed on that and got the surgery done in a private hospital straight away which removed me from the wait list for the public operating theatre. 

To be honest we couldn't afford for everyone to be on the public system and I don't think any country could afford that.  At least not maintaining the current standards.   

[keasy]

It sounds more or less how things happen over here Vasc.

Except over here it's an extremely watered down version, extremely dilute as NHS is still primary.

People can opt for private health insurance mainly through the big providers medicare and Bupa.
They wont cover the most expensive things like cancer. They will hospitalise you and provide nursing care etc, but the main surgery in such cases would still be provided by the NHS. But the kind of less life threatening ailments such as your they would operate on, privately.

The only problem is that it's so expensive that people won't pay for it and most companies don't provide either.


I must admit to being a NHS fanboi, it has it's problems but the fact it doesn't discriminate really appeals to my political ideals.