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[Wooster]

I am.

[Centurion]

I am...No one being or what you want to call it could of made a planet with this much outstanding beauty  I can't describe what I would like too say but you get the gist Let alone a whole solar system.

[Hap Hazzard]

If things exsist, because a thought tells us it does, how do we know what's real and whats not. I think of things that other people, (who say that they also exsist and have thoughts), say are not real.  

I'm i just a thought, who mingles around with other thoughts.  

[papa_lazarou]

I think agnostic is probably for people who just don't give a f**k and don't sit thinking about it. Such as myself.

More athiest than believer though, there is no proof.

And its discussion of if there is or isnt a god is pretty pointless cause nothing will change when one side is proven right. If there is a god he/she obviously quite content to not make themselves known or interfere and if there isnt well nothing will change except alot of people saying "told you so".  If god was proven not to exist I'm sure people would end up following some other cult for that feeling of 'me tooism' and 'spiritualness'.

[Stevie]

If god was proven not to exist I'm sure people would end up following some other cult for that feeling of 'me tooism' and 'spiritualness'.

Couldn't agree more.

Here's a prime example of how easily people are susceptible to such things.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6734469.stm

and here's another

http://www.damninteresting.com/john-frum-and-the-cargo-cults

And a classic quote from one of the elders of the tribe when being interviewed by David Attenborough. When Attenborough was telling him that John Frum would not return, the tribal elder quipped

"If you can wait over 2000 years for Jesus Christ, i can wait over 70 years for John Frum"

[keasy]

I'm quite sure splinter is 'sure' of his mind set.

To put it another way, we are pretty much all agnostic to the existence of fairies because it can't be proved either way, but really we are Atheists because the lack of evidence is hugely swayed to their non-existence.

That logic is flawed as fairies don't constitute the context of what you seem to think agnostic is. Agnostic and atheist are more related to each other than agnostic and 'believer'.

Atheism by most peoples accounts is derived at as a conclusion of rational thought such as I suspect you to have arrived at your conclusion relating to the existence of god or gods. Equally the existence of god or of gods is often derived at conclusion through rational thought process as much as indoctrination. People can rationalise differently and frankly the 'Richard Dawkins' camps hijacking of what they like to dictate to people as rationale is way beyond arrogance.

[Glamdring]

Rational thought is arrogant?

[keasy]

Rational thought is arrogant?

The hijacking of rational thought is, yes.

Ala Richard Dawkins.

People can conclude through there own rational process of thought that there is a god equally as much as there is not a god. To suggest that rationale can suggest only that there is not a god is arrogant.

Or rather the Richard Dawkins camp is arrogant.

[Stevie]

How can you be accused of hijacking rational thought when belief in god is irrational? That's why you need faith.

I don't mean that to sound as an insult by the way, but belief in anything that defies logic and isn't evidence based is by it's own definition, irrational.

Richard Dawkins does not deny the existence of god by the way.

[keasy]

Richard Dawkings forums very much do.


Belief in god is not irrational. Belief in god is extremely rational to some. Rational is not exclusively the realm of evidential elimination as you suggest. Rational is simply the ability to to rationalise a thought of judgement or opinion.


'belief in anything that defies logic and isn't evidence based is by it's own definition, irrational. '

Believing in god may be  illogical to you and your 'rationale' but the existence of god is highly logical to many as logic pertains to  reasoning not hard facts.

I don't mean  to sound offensive either but I'm curious as to why you start a thread requesting a simple 'I am' or an 'I am not' answer then go on to further encourage elaboration ?

[Stevie]

Well it kind of developed into a discussion.

We'll leave it alone. These things always end up the same 

[keasy]

Are you watching the Scotland game at all ?


I've been full of hope all week that we may start the campaign to enter out first major tournament for years on a good positive note. But alas it already feels like yet another 'gemme ower the park'. Sigh.

[Stevie]

I'm not big on the fitba but I do like it when we win. I see what you mean though.

this page looks messed up on my iPod btw.

[AbaddonsFury]

I am.

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT.....your one of them little bugs that like to eat roses......... 

[MEGGY]

belief is wierd shit...there was a guy going to a shrink coz he thought he was dead, a corpse. the shrink says do corpses bleed? guy says don't talk shit...corpses are dead and full of dust...shrink says ok i'll prick you with pin and if you bleed, then you can't be a corpse...guy says yeah, go for it...shrink pricks him with pin and sure enough, he bleeds...guy says...fuckin hell, corpses DO bleed!