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[Splinter]

But even old Ronnie would have pulled this off with more aplomb.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15669242

[Thermalsig]

That's just another dumbass swinging dick from Texas. We do not need another wannabe cowboy in the White House. Doesn't he remind everyone of Bush with his flubbed attempts at English speech?

Sent by  Droid X while sniping squirrels from my roof.

[Wooster]

Read something interesting a couple of weeks ago.
Some of the more extreme ideas expressed by the candidates (of either party) around now are more about getting funding from rich crackpots, than they are about appealing to the common voter.
i.e. Climate change denial, pro creationism, Perry's preference for sex education based on abstinence (??  ) etc.

That they're currently hawking themselves is not something that'd be immediately obvious to many people outside the US.

[Kryten]

I'm a long way away, but I tend to judge these things primarily in terms of my perception of the candidates' potential future international role.

From my perspective, the US needs a leader who (or, rather, a large, broad, leadership group which) is actually going to take a forthright, positive, internationalist, stance on environmental and global economic issues. She or he (or, rather, they), should be prepared to see that simply playing the "US uber alles" card is ultimately counterproductive if the world goes down the enviro or economic waste pipe as a result! None of the Republican candidates come anywhere close to this.

I'd like to see a leader (leadership) who stick(s) their religion in their back pocket and doesn't pull it out again at least for the duration of their time in power, instead of trumpeting faith as part of their election campaign. None of the Republican candidates come anywhere close to this.

I'd like to see a US leader who, as a first step to global military restraint, has the guts to take on the military and the armament manufacturers and is prepared to pull back US military expenditure to say, the level of the next comparably sized entity plus 10% (currently that would amount to the combined EEU nations figure of around $300billion +10%). Even this would require a halving of the current US budget. Ultimately pulling back to that of the next national entity (France) plus 10% would still leave the US as the world's dominant military power of course. By then they'd only be spending about 1/8th of their current military budget and they could use the balance to do something, dare I say it, about their education and health systems! None of the Republican candidates come anywhere close to this.

I'd like to see a US leader who saw "Global leadership" as involving the US as the world leader in providing a decent life for all it's citizens (an area where they are currently sadly lacking - most European countries leave them for dead in this area, as well as in economics); as providing an example as world leader (rather than the antediluvian fool) on environmental issues; as the nation that began to use it's wealth and power to do good for both its own citizens (rather than its own corporations) and the world at large, without imagining that whatever it can bludgeon other people into doing necessarily has some sort of inevitable worth simply because the US says so; as a nation that genuinely seeks to improve the lot of people throughout the world rather than imagining that conformity to its own ideological and economic precepts has some sort of "a priori" worth, etc etc. None of the Republican candidates come anywhere close to this.

I think the US is currently sitting where Britain sat 50 years ago, where Spain sat in the 1600's, where Rome sat in 300 AD, etc etc. Economically they are being bypassed. Militarily they are seen as arrogant and foolish. Socially they are seen more and more as a backwater that simply hasn't grasped the way to give their citizens a better life. Leaders good enough to rescue failing "Major Powers" from such situations are few on the ground, and rarely listened to, I fear, and the slip downwards is usually slow enough for the "blame" not to end up on any single person's head, but I reckon that is what they need right now.

The US, I think, is on a cusp. The leaders they choose over the next decade or so are going to have a huge effect on how far backwards the US falls economically and socially. They are going backwards in both areas at present. If they elect leaders who imagine that such a decline can be arrested by strident nationalism or "tougher" approaches on both the local and international levels then they are kidding themselves.

They need someone (or, rather, one heck of a lot of "someones") with a lot of brains, a hide as thick as a rhinoceroses when it comes to domestic pressures from the lobby groups, and a realisation that the US can neither bully the world into submission on the one hand nor escape from its own place in it on the other.

A truly internationalist, truly clever, truly wise, US leadership, given the advantages accrued from their period "in the sun" could do a great amount for the world right now, if it did so without brutality or hubris. It could do a very great deal for their own citizens too, who are, in a large part, falling way behind their compatriots in other well off countries.

[Wooster]

Glad to see you back mate, and on form as usual. 


(I was a bit hasty on deleting your old account and got plenty of stick over it...but I think we're obliged to if it's requested.  )

[Kryten]

Is there some kind of bug, virus or whatever that's doing the rounds with the Republican nominees? - http://youtu.be/KAGGpK7bSWc

Glad to see you back mate, and on form as usual.  

It's good to be back.

(I was a bit hasty on deleting your old account and got plenty of stick over it...but I think we're obliged to if it's requested.  )

Well, at the time I did have about half a bottle of Scotland's finest Glen something or other single malt whiskey in me which most certainly would have contributed in my decision. So yes, it was the fault of someone residing north of Hadrian's wall that made me make a bad decision.  

[Wooster]

They're starting to look like George Bush analogues, in that their owners don't expect them to do much thinking if they get into office. 

[Thermalsig]

I didn't want to copy your reply Kryten, too long. It's seems to me that it's now coming to light in the general public just how badly all the govt duchebags are. It used to be from lack of news coverage that some weren't aware of this. I have always felt that people played the hippocrates well and felt safe slamming America. I used to get angry about it, but now I just point at their own govt and laugh. America is no different than any other modern democratic country, just slightly bigger population wise. Ever since the formation of the European union, it's become common knowledge how badly all govt's are run and things are starting to implode because of this. I believe the UK it's probably one of the few countries that said, "wait a minute" and didn't go in full tilt. My point is, we should all watch our govt and trust no one. That its how we'll survive this with out more rights being lost to the people. Sorry for the grammar, I'm on a phone.

Sent by  Droid X while sniping squirrels from my roof.

[Kryten]

I didn't want to copy your reply Kryten, too long. It's seems to me that it's now coming to light in the general public just how badly all the govt duchebags are. It used to be from lack of news coverage that some weren't aware of this. I have always felt that people played the hippocrates well and felt safe slamming America. I used to get angry about it, but now I just point at their own govt and laugh. America is no different than any other modern democratic country, just slightly bigger population wise. Ever since the formation of the European union, it's become common knowledge how badly all govt's are run and things are starting to implode because of this. I believe the UK it's probably one of the few countries that said, "wait a minute" and didn't go in full tilt. My point is, we should all watch our govt and trust no one. That its how we'll survive this with out more rights being lost to the people. Sorry for the grammar, I'm on a phone.

Sent by  Droid X while sniping squirrels from my roof.

Yours was not so long Therm, so I can quote it.

I do agree with most of what you say. Trouble is it is hard to see where the impetus will come from to escape from the current malaise. It is hard to see anyone tough enough to resist the entrenched interest groups, not by getting more jingoistic, militarily more offensive, and economically "meaner", but by developing a more rational view of their place in the contemporary world.

[Wooster]

I fall foul of forgetting how big it is myself and that the general opinion in State A could be way different from State B...and there's 50 of them.
We've only got four 'states' in the UK and we constantly have different voting trends.

[Thermalsig]

Right now, I'm not so worried about the US. If Europe doesn't get it together quickly, we could all be screwed. The domino falling of leaders of state needs to happen, the problem I see is that corporate shills are popping up in there place. Look at Burlesconi's replacement. He's a Lehman Bros corporate shill who doesn't really give a shit about the people, and they fecking worship him as their savoir. Like I said, I'm more worried about the rest of the world right now than our hick republicans. They'll destroy themselves until a fairly moderate centrist is left. It's the only way they can even attempt to beat Obama and a country that is sick to death of war.

Sent by  Droid X while sniping squirrels from my roof.

[keasy]

Don;t worry.

The Lizard Men will soon reveal themselves to all !


Yip yirk!

[Kryten]

Ha! Don't even get me started on Europe, Therm.

But isn't everything globally interlinked these days?

For example, I always think back to your 2000 elections. The only thing that has ever really bothered me about the 2000 election is the Bill Clinton - Monica Lewinsky episode that preceded it. If it wasn’t for that shameful chapter, it probably would have been Al Gore finishing his second term in 2008; there never would have been a Bush v. Gore; and while 9/11 may still have happened, we would never have gone into Iraq; which means that there never would have been more than 4,000 dead American service-people (plus dead British soldiers and soldiers from other coalition members) and over 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians; no multi-billion dollar no-bid contracts for government cronies, Abu Ghraib, or Guantanamo, come to think of it.

As a direct result of the above, the US economy wouldn’t be in this crisis and neither would there be an economic crisis in Europe; your Justice Department wouldn’t have been entirely politicised or engaging in domestic surveillance and wiretapping, and your moral authority as a nation wouldn’t have been sacrificed by the neocons who hijacked your foreign policy apparatus for the sake of Israel and oil.

It all boils down to that fateful day on 7th November, 2000.

[Wooster]

It's amazing the trouble a blowjob can get you into. 

[Thermalsig]

I guess I don't need to tell you that you've stretched your thinking there. You can "what if" everything and promote conspiracy theories all you want. Al Gore actually won the 2000 election and it was taken by the courts. That is factual and backed up by the numbers. The reason the race was so close was because the country was half convinced we had gone too far left, which is where we stand now. As far as Europe being  the fault of America, it's fair to say recent history had shown a very bright spot light on why that is very far from the truth. Social programs taken to far, people expecting something for nothing, ie. I deserve housing, medical care and food, but I'm not paying my taxes (Greece anyone?) And crooked govt and bankers.  You're economical situation was no more sustainable than ours. Don't claim the moral high ground. That's absolutely ridiculous. You dug your own hole as a country, now stand up and swallow your pill, fix your problems and quit blaming everyone but yourself. Ffs, it's a global economy, or did your higher capacity(and you are an intelligent person) for reasoning forget that. Fuck it, I've blown my last wad with people that can't ever think outside their sand box.

Sent by  Droid X while sniping squirrels from my roof.