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[Wooster]

Aye, we have a long history of rustling cattle from the English.  


I heard what's probably the worst politicism uttered to date by Lord Empey, who said that Scottish independence would reignite The Troubles in Northern Ireland.
...tw@!  

I'm still sort of favouring Devo Max myself, or as it should probably be called, Federalism.
That way we keep stuff like defence, foreign policy and major economic policies under the one banner.
...Funnily enough John Major is an advocate of it.
Who says I always disagree with the Tories?  

[keasy]

Devo max = All the benefits of Unionism but still having England as back up. I ain't having no soft southern puff holding my hand.

Fuck that !

I'm going all out on an independence rampage!
Bring it on ...all or nothing, death or glory, for freeeedom!

[Centurion]

You were in bed with France not to long ago!!! watch who your calling puff

[Wooster]

Tory Eurosceptics are onto a win if we do go the whole hog, since what's left of the UK would likely have to renegotiate entry into the EU.

[Centurion]

Hot news......we don't want to be in the EU.

[Wooster]

Some do, some don't.

[Wooster]

Whitehall are circling their wagons..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9066439/Mandarins-freeze-out-Alex-Salmond-s-civil-servant-from-independence-talks.html

[corroded]

Tory Eurosceptics are onto a win if we do go the whole hog, since what's left of the UK would likely have to renegotiate entry into the EU.

That's not even true, the last I heard it would only be Scotland that would have to negotiate entry into the EU.

If Scotland leaving Britain has any bearing on existing British policy, all British people should get a vote on Scottish devolution.

[Wooster]

It depends on the article read, but they all seem to come from a report from AFP:


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iajSMJN37uamGND6TquhcLqsJTkQ?docId=CNG.d5034f37cebe7fb3262d88d351279af2.161
That one doesn't mention what he said later though, this one does.
http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/europe/brussels-raises-eu-membership-questions-if-britain-breaks-up

It looks to me like he's saying there's a possibility that we wouldn't even have to adopt the Euro and membership could be reaffirmed (by Scotland and what's left of the UK) pretty easily.


How would your idea work if the Scots voted for independence by a huge majority?
Roll the tanks onto the streets and keep us in the UK by force?

[corroded]

You mean in the same way that in the last but one election, the England had a voting majority to the Conservatives but Scotland kept us Labour?

I don't see how it's fair if Scotland having a referendum on leaving Britain can affect the rest of the union. If that is the case, there is no way it is fair that Scotland can take the decision solely.

And since we are all still citizens of Britain currently, if the British people decided for or against independence, then that's the choice that's been made.

I don't mind if Scotland is independent or not, as long as it doesn't affect the remainder of the country which is what seemingly is being implied.

[keasy]

We're a sovereign state, a recognised single  country. If we want to leave a political union without that political unions consent, consultation or public vote we can. Simple.
We're a sovereign state and as such matters concerning that state are internal in regard to its future. Any post break effects are something I'm afraid Enlgand would just have to deal with, same as we would too.
Being part of a political union doesn't give anyone the right to have a say in our decision to break away or stay within but us. And yes, I do agree, England should be raising these issues herself. But she won't because the powers that be see England as the governing ruling state, attitudes remnant  from a by gone imperialist past. To give England devolved power is an affront to the ruling plutocracies who see themselves as the upper class and betters of all.
It's just tough titties I'm afraid, it's our vote and ours alone. Until you lot down there wake up and realise the Tories you all consistently vote into power are the ones holding you back from devolution you're just going to have to put up with it.
That's the difference up here, there's more of a multilateral commonality amongst us as Scots. We don't allow anyone; monied; birth righted; on perceivably higher social rungs; or exclusively educated to start thinking they're somehow better than the collective us. Down south you do. You've been so used to it it's accepted as the norm. It's the fundamental reason why Scotland and England are so different and why the breaking of the union is largely inevitable or if not inevitable always on the back burner.

You need to wake up to the idea of the common man meaning we are all common to an identity, not common meaning you're somehow a lower class than the wealthy man standing next to you. You're so engrained in a class system down there you will never get devolved power until you all grow a pair and do something about it.

[Wooster]

My sister was watching some morning TV show today and they were doing an article on how to keep the kids occupied during the half term holidays...but they only had ideas for English parents.

Since our kids are on holiday as well, she contacted the show through Facebook asking if they had any ideas for Scottish parents.
Twenty minutes later, some random sent her a message asking what our (the Scots) problem was. First we were looking for independence, and now we're looking to steal their (the English) ideas as well.  


Man, there are some right balloons about.  

[Thermalsig]

My sister was watching some morning TV show today and they were doing an article on how to keep the kids occupied during the half term holidays...but they only had ideas for English parents.

Since our kids are on holiday as well, she contacted the show through Facebook asking if they had any ideas for Scottish parents.
Twenty minutes later, some random sent her a message asking what our (the Scots) problem was. First we were looking for independence, and now we're looking to steal their (the English) ideas as well. 


Man, there are some right balloons about. 

I don't know about this reply. Does it not only reinforce Keasy's thoughts? :P

Sent from my the webs in search of the elusive. "woman manual" on my Fire

[Wooster]

Probably, but that attitude is so common we barely noticed it any more (preferring to leave the odd nugget to their delusions).
It's only now that the question of independence has been raised (again) that we've started to take note again.

[Thermalsig]

I wonder, if like here, that behavior and thought pattern is the old gaurd? I see alot of old timers pushing negativity here that I don't comprehend. I don't have any hidden agenda for anyone, nor do most of my generation, but the old timers do. They hide it well until they think they are in like company. It's amazing to me. Most of my customers are very affluent and it's the old ones that hide their feelings well. Could this same bulshit be as prevalent there? Maybe the young gens on both sides are the ones to think shit through in thought patterns that fit into modern society. I hope so on both sides of the ocean, or we are all fuckered. On our side, we need to stick together and kill the war machine that our govt is now. Greedy corporations run this place and that needs to stop. It's the same the world over. That's why I think it's right that a vote would only be decided by the Scot's. It's the only fair way. I also hope that everyone understand the economy of a separation fully and votes with all the contextually correct knowledge. I'm not pretending I understand the subject fully, I'm just making an outside observation.

Sent by  Droid X while sniping squirrels from my roof.