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[Splinter]

What's the problem with Russia and China?
Vested interests no doubt.
Meanwhile, Assad bombs the shit out of his own people a la Libya and nothing it seems is done or planning to be done.
Not enough oil, no doubt.

[Wooster]

Vested interests right enough and not just in the oil industry, Russia do well out of the Assad regime in the arms trade as well.

[keasy]

Just the same as when we turn a blind eye to dictatorships and bastard regimes.

Deal in the desert ? Pffft. A house of rogues they all are.

It's why I'm voting independence for Scotland and getting to fuck out of N.A.T.O. at the same time. Okay I know N.A.T.O. isn't the UN/Security Council but it's still being a lap dog to a plutocratic elite governed mostly by the US.

Had enough of the lot.

And yes, regardless of the fact we do it too it doesn't make it just, the Chinks and the Ruskies are worse in terms of human rights abuse so I guess they're still that bit worse than us.

Fuck, I think I'm turning into a hippy again.
Help.
Help me.

[Glamdring]

It's why I'm voting independence for Scotland and getting to fuck out of N.A.T.O. at the same time. Okay I know N.A.T.O. isn't the UN/Security Council but it's still being a lap dog to a plutocratic elite governed mostly by the US.

I found this very interesting: http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/scottish_independence_former_nato_head_george_robertson_attacks_snp_defence_plan_as_incoherent_1_2070061

[Wooster]

He would say that though, wouldn't he?

What it boils down is whether The Scots are happy to send their kids out to die for someone else's political gain.
The second Iraq war kicked that into touch.

(Sweden and Ireland aren't part of NATO btw)

[keasy]

It was one of two very large stumbling blocks that held me back from an view towards independance. But when I thought long and hard about it i concluded N.A.T.O. is a code word for Americas lap dog and silly little countries clinging to the idea they are somehow powerful. We don;t really need it, we would still participate in United Nations programmes, far more humane based and not war mongering for political grasp as NATO is.
If ever the world fell on dark times like WW 1,2 we would of course unite with an allied cause providing it was the correct one. NATO is just not required in a country our size.

[Glamdring]

He would say that though, wouldn't he?

What it boils down is whether The Scots are happy to send their kids out to die for someone else's political gain.
The second Iraq war kicked that into touch.

(Sweden and Ireland aren't part of NATO btw)

Sweden and Ireland rely then on others' forces against real trouble.

From my mobile so don't. blame me for predictive texting.

[Wooster]

In Irelands case, the last major conflict they had was with Britain.
Iirc they won that one by themselves.

[Glamdring]

True. In WW2 they tacitly supported the Nazis.

From my mobile so don't. blame me for predictive texting.

[Wooster]

As far as I recall it was only the IRA who had links with Nazi Germany.

And let's not forget, many British peers and politicians had similar links.

[Glamdring]

It was much more than the IRA who were pro-Nazi. They turned away a shipload of Jewish children and refused homes to many who were destitute after the War. Many Nazi war criminals were given citizenship, including one of Poland's worst offenders. There is strong evidence to suggest Folens - the guy who went on to found the famous educational book publishers, was heavily involved before he was admitted into Ireland. Pro-Nazi sentiment was endemic within the Irish State at that time, now recognised as a very dark period in their history.  Irish soldiers fought on both sides.

Not that this has anything to do with Syria, of course. Other than the Syrian state is behaving much like fascists.

[keasy]

The Irish only went on sympathy side with the fascists because they were fighting the Brits who had frankly fucked them over in no worse ways. Bearing in mind the crimes against humanity weren't as apparent during the war.
The Curse of Cromwell is a very real and living attitude in Ireland to this day and was even way more profound back then.
I'm not defending or agreeing with their association, but I can certainly form an empathic reasoning as to why.

Let's not forget how wicked they were too. The Irish hold a grudge like a dog with a bone.

Howzat ? 


Anyhoo....Syria...scotland...Ireland....man    

BTW very interesting fact about Folens Glam. I'll be sure to remember on Wednesday when I'm actually using a Folens book with a Language class group that I'm invloved in a fascists legacy  

Staff room banter will be of interest too during morning interval.
 

[Wooster]

Something I just recalled about Ireland during the war is the fate of those who left to fight fascism with the British and Commonwealth forces.

On their return they found themselves blacklisted (officially called a starvation order) and excluded from any state jobs, and possibly many more.  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16287211

A dark chapter indeed.

[keasy]

Shocking.

 

[Splinter]

Shocking.

 

Agreed!